The Philadelphia Daily News has a lengthy (and excellent) story about the shooting outside the aptly-named “Playmakers” bar in North Philadelphia, which is owned by Colts receiver (and Philly native) Marvin Harrison.
Here are some things we didn’t previously know (or previously hadn’t noticed):
The victim of the shooting had been in a fistfight with Harrison moments before the shooting. The victim had been kicked out of the bar two weeks earlier, and had bickered with Harrison ever since.
The victim initially concealed the fact that he’d been shot. He later admitted it, but declined to identify the shooter.
As to those reports of the Belgian gun being found in a bucket, the Daily News writes that Harrison handed the gun over.
Harrison spent four hours being interviewed at the police station, with his attorney present. Harrison acknowledged being involved in a fight with the victim, but denied any involvement in the shooting.
Detectives are searching for another man who called and claimed that he’d been shot by Harrison.
Five of the six shell casings found at the scene came from Harrison’s gun.
Though police have taken great pains to explain that there currently is no suspect, the Daily News makes clear that Harrison is a target of the investigation.
And why wouldn’t he be? It was his gun that had been fired, and the gun was in his possession the next day. Unless Harrison is in a position to implicate someone else (or if there’s someone else who’ll take the fall), it’s all pointing to him at this point.
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Slow Willie Porker, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 10:35 am
Hall of Fame career and now he might be remembered for this… what a shame.
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Rating: 4.5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
BBrophy1, a Rookie, on 5/3/08 at 10:38 am
I’m not a ballistics expert but if 5 of te 6 casings were from Harrison’s gun, then the 6th one was from another gun. The victim was shot once, can’t they pinpoint which gun this guy was hit from?
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Rating: 4.5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
nosupeforu, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 10:41 am
One of the most accurate 9mm handguns made (browning hi power), relatively short range, five or seven shots fired, one minor wound. Forget about the knees, his hand/eye coordination is gone - cut him.
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Rating: 4.5 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
josereyes0, a Head Coach, on 5/3/08 at 10:43 am
Innocent until proven guilty, but it’s not looking too good for him…
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
crichton08, a Passionate Fan, on 5/3/08 at 10:49 am
how long before Jerry Jones is trying to trade for harrison
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
Ditkas Cigar, a Rookie, on 5/3/08 at 10:58 am
Ding, Ding, Ding … We have a winner!
“Unless Harrison is in a position to implicate someone else (or if there’s someone else who’ll take the fall), it’s all pointing to him at this point.”
You hit that nail right on the head Florio.
With the amount of money Harrison is worth, odds are pretty good that if he is guilty, he’ll find some stooge willing to take the fall for him for a large amount of cash!!!
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
Mr. Touchdown, a Head Coach, on 5/3/08 at 11:18 am
More like…. A suspect/person of interest until proven guilty.
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
Space Bandito, a Passionate Fan, on 5/3/08 at 11:18 am
Better and more logical story than what was being told by that radio tool who was on ESPN yesterday. When he spoke you had a sense that the story was too big for his brain.
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Rob0769, a Division Champ, on 5/3/08 at 11:23 am
Ditkas Cigar,
How much money would it take for someone to take the wrap if the charge is attempted murder? Hard to argue self defense when your gun fired five shots and the other gun fired one. The number of times the gun was fired could justify an attempted murder charge. How much money would it take for you to go to jail for 7-15 years or so?
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Rating: 2.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
JayPhilly, a Head Coach, on 5/3/08 at 11:25 am
This is a question for the readers, I’ve seen comments both here and on ESPN claiming that Harrison used a .50cal. Is this true? and who uses a .50Cal handgun??
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
LiveNBreath Football, a Head Coach, on 5/3/08 at 11:25 am
Given the guy had a grudge, and what happened to Sean Taylor last year, it’s sounding more like self-defense. Do we know if the guy who got shot had a gun or other weapon?
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
Ditkas Cigar, a Rookie, on 5/3/08 at 11:43 am
“Given the guy had a grudge, and what happened to Sean Taylor last year, it’s sounding more like self-defense.”
Self-Defense? He shot at least 5 times. Someone else may have fired one shot. That doesn’t sound a whole lot like self-defense to me. Hopefully, the truth will come out at some point in time. Though, if the other guy did have a weapon, that certainly would help Harrison’s case.
“This is a question for the readers, I’ve seen comments both here and on ESPN claiming that Harrison used a .50cal. Is this true? and who uses a .50Cal handgun??”
Guys who hunt elephants with a pistol.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
Ron From NM, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 11:46 am
So, my speculation yesterday happened to be on the mark. The gun in question was 5.7mm. The story goes out of its way to babble about ‘armor piercing rounds’ most likely because the author doesn’t know that pretty much any high velocity round is said to be armor piercing. High velocity, in this case, is around 2300 feet per second. Even though the 5.7mm rounds are tiny (30ish grains) compared to those of, say, a .45 (230ish grains) they run a lot faster than the .45’s 800ish feet per second. Don’t get caught up in the ‘armor piercing’ hype that the anti-gun media likes to throw around. By their definition my 1891 Argentine Mauser (over 100 years old) with full metal jacket bullets made in Argentina (duh!) in 1955 qualifies as armor piercing by media standards. If you want to judge him for owning a truly hideous gun (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg18-e.htm) then go right ahead. I know that I’m snickering at him for it.
I wandered over to the NRA-ILA site and clicked on PA’s gun laws (http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/PASL.pdf). PA doesn’t have gun registration and the state won’t allow cities to pass their own gun laws so Harrison couldn’t have registered his weapons even if he wanted to…because there’s no agency to register them with. Again, if the media starts blathering about unregistered firearms you can just ignore them and snicker at a rich guy owning such an ugly gun.
The story had some interesting points.
First, if 5 of the shell casings came from the 5.7mm firearm where did the 6th casing come from? If the guy with the hole in his hand fired a round at Harrison things get murky very quickly. Was that extra casing from a round that was fired first? Second? Last? Without witnesses (as the story proclaims) it could become one man’s word against another’s. Oh, and one of those men will be able to hire a platoon of excellent lawyers and the other won’t. If Harrison owns up to shooting those 5 rounds he could make the case that it was self defense.
Second, the guy with the hole in the hand drove to a fairly nearby hospital–about 5 miles away according to Mapquest. He then lied about how he had received his injury. Why? I know if some really rich guy shot me I’d make sure that everyone knew about it. Extortion is illegal while suing people is the national passtime. The only reason I can see for him to lie about it is because he broke some law himself. If Harrison shot him (or someone else shot him with Harrison’s firearm) the guy with the extra hole would be within his rights to return fire. If, however, he initiated the gunplay then he might not be so inclined to admit that he was there at all.
Third, because the wounded guy left the scene he had the opportunity to dispose of any weapon(s) he might have had in his possession. No one is going to fault the guy for leaving the area after he’d been shot in order to both save his life and get medical treatment. However, if a claim is made that the guy was armed and did at some time shoot at whoever was firing the 5.7 the extra shell casing at the scene might make a simple denial (I didn’t have a gun.) less plausible. Because the story states that Harrison handed the 5.7 over to police it seems as though he stayed at the scene of the shooting.
Fourth, Harrison wasn’t arrested. He was interviewed for 4 hours and then released. Part of that might have to do with having a high priced lawyer affixed to his hip. With that said, many people who use a firearm in self defense are arrested. It’s kind of the fall back position for the cops–charge the guy with something (like shooting someone in the hand) and let the DA sort it out.
Fifth, a bystander was injured as a result of the gunplay. Even gun happy states like Texas make a person shooting in self defense criminally liable (and open to lawsuits, of course) for every bullet that leaves the gun. So, if Harrison lied to cops about not being the shooter he might face both perjury charges and charges for injuring the kid even if it was a legitimate case of self defense.
I won’t say that I’m glad this happened but, with the draft over, I was wondering what was going to liven up the offseason.
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Rating: 4.45 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
HamiD, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:06 pm
We don’t know if any of these information are true? If they are true, he can forget everything about HOF.
He is my favorite player, so please. He can’t be guilty.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
Ron From NM, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:11 pm
.50 caliber and 5.7mm are not the same thing. A 5.7mm round is tiny while a .50 round is enormous. A .50 is a round with a half inch diameter. In metric terms a .50 would be 12.7mm–over twice the diameter and far more than twice the mass. Unless the 6th shell casing came from a .50 (unlikely given that the guns that fire them are enormous) no .50 was involved.
How many rounds a person fires in self defense isn’t terribly relevant. In free states (i.e. those without fascist gun laws) if you are legally justified in using deadly force no one is going to care how many times you discharge your weapon. Now, once the person ceases to be a threat (drops his weapon, runs away, puts his hands up, dies screaming, etc.) you can’t continue to shoot at them. Not even in the Southwest. So long as they are a threat you can blaze away, reloading if necessary.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
PFTurdLOL, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:13 pm
uh oh!! I smell totally relevant turd points coming the Colts way!!!! It’s so exciting!
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
DC Jets Fan, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:26 pm
Marvin is not who we thought he was
–Dennis Green
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
marvismyhero, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:33 pm
Dear Ron–you need to take an oath before you can get charged with “perjury”. Also, anybody that talks to the police with or without their attorney is a moron. Lastly, I would encourage everyone to ignore your analysis of the self-defense laws. Good luck in law school.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
Pigboy5177, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:49 pm
Let me start by saying this. If you are famous and have money the way that Marvin Harrison does then you become the tagret of criticsm, scrutiny, and sad to say the victim of crimes. Does anyone remember Sean Taylor. A story was recently done that said that numerous players in the NFL have firearms. This is America, and the 2nd Ammendment allows for citizens to arm themselves and protect themselves.
Who in this forum has ever had a firearm pointed at them. I did not think so. I wanted to make some observations about some of the comments posted. First is the theory that that Harrison is the shooter. I would venture to guess that he is. Big Deal, if the story is accurate in it’s portrayal, then Harrison had beef with the alleged victim and had recently been involved in a fight with him.
If the victim armed himself and actually tok a shot at Harrison, then Harrison is justified in shooting the victim. Even if it is five rounds fired through a FN 5.7mm Five-seveN pistol.
Bottom line is this, if someone trys to kill you, then you have every right to defend yourself. I find it interesting that comments posted hinted at the fact that five rounds were fired could mean attempted murder charges. NO way, you fire until the threat is nutralized. In this case Harrison is obviously a bad shot, if in fact he is the shooter.
Now to the comments about the gun being armor piercing. There is no doubt that the firearm is armor piercing if it is a FN 5.7mm Five-seveN handgun. But what does that have to do with the story. As one blogger pointed out, correctly I might add, that armor piercing is basically any round thats fired at more than 2300 FPS. This round is very popular and has actually been put on Law Enforcement bulletins as being a cop killer, because of the fact that it can and will defeat body armor. It is said in a recent ESPN broadcast that Harrison owns 25 some odd guns. Again that is his right. He also has a permit to carry the guns, according to some news broadcasts.
I also would like to comment on the fact that Harrison was interviewed and not arrested. A point was made that said most people who use a gun in self defense are charged and then let the DA sort it out. This could not be any further from the truth. As a prior Homicide Detective and current LEO I can tell you that the decision to arrest lies at the feet of the SAO, or State Attorney’s Office, not the local police department. Secondly most self defense cases do not end up in charged cases.
If yu are trying to defend yourself and it is proven that the shooting was justified then it is not prosecuted and that case is cleared by exception, as either Justifiable Use of Deadly Force, or proseution declined, meaning that there was enough evidence to merit an arrest, however; the information did not rise to an acceptable level of conviction. Meaning that even if Harrison did in fact shoot the victim, the SAO did not think that they could get a conviction.
I will end this rant on this point. Most people that drive themselves to the Hospital after being shot and lie about what happened are hiding something. I bet it will come out in this incident that the alleged victim is a convicted felon and could not possess a firearm. That act alone would merit hard time of at least three to five years on sentencing guidelines. Just some food for thought.
Let the facts some out before you blast a sure HOF who exercises his right as an American citizen.
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Rating: 3.3 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
jared360, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:50 pm
hey Ron,
I know you think you feel smart for your comment. But what you say makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. Pennsylvania has no gun registration? What are you serious? Thats odd becuase I LIVE in PA, and OWN both rifles and handguns. ALL HANDGUNS NEED TO BE REGISTERED, and for you to say otherwise, makes all the points you made in your comments seem raher silly which is a shame because you made SOME valid points. Check your info next time, Charlton Heston….
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Rating: 4.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
A guy got shot in the hand, what is the big deal. It will be nearly impossible to prove it was anything but an accident.
Ron from NM, Harrison can not be charged with purjury for lying to the cops. It is not illegal to lie to the cops. It only would point to his guilt and brought up in court to convict him. Harrison was not under oath at the police stations.
IMO - this is alot to do about nothing. The guy has a hand injury.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
raydarammer, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:54 pm
Damn! And he was considered one of the GOOD GUYS! Just goes to show you don’t really know what a person is capable of doing. Yeah, I know. Innocent till proven guilty. But just the fact that Harrison is involved in something like this is shocking enough. I know people are human. And NFL players are no different. But it still surprises me that HE would be in something like this! Oh well.
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Ron From NM, a Cheerleader, on 5/3/08 at 12:55 pm
Dear Marvismy hero,
Last I knew making false statements to the cops was a bad thing, the kind of thing that you can be prosecuted for. Oh, and lying to the cops in an interview doesn’t help your credibility should the case ever go to trial.
And it will go to trial, pretty much every time, if you shoot someone and don’t talk to the cops with your attorney. While I agree that you’d be stupid to talk to police without an attorney clamming up with your attorney present if you’ve done nothing wrong is an entirely different prospect. Most people would prefer not to shell out the thousands of dollars it takes to defend oneself in court for defending oneself on the street if it can at all be avoided.
Self defense laws vary by location. Some places have good self defense laws and others, like say, New York state do not. I’m guessing you live in one of those that do not.
Go Bills. Really.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
Rob0769, a Division Champ, on 5/3/08 at 1:02 pm
Ron From NM,
The more rounds fired, the harder it is to argue self defense especially if the person you are defending yourself from only fired once. Add to the fact that the police have a motive - the guy was harrassing Harrison and got into a fist fight with him just prior to the shooting -, Harrison was reported to have chased after the guy out of the bar, and there may be another gun shot victim who hasn’t come forward; I think Harrison will have a very tough time arguing self defense if it is determined that he fired the shots.
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Vox Veritas, a Hall of Famer, on 5/3/08 at 1:08 pm
I don’t know where you guys come from but where I come from, if you beat a guy’s ass and he leaves and you follow him, you’re probably looking to beat his ass some more. You follow him with a gun, you’re probably looking to bust a cap in his ass. If that’s the case, maybe the other guy would be justified in firing first, if he did. He just took a ninja-style ass-whipping, he’s thinking he might get a second helping or worse if he doesn’t do something.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)